… I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention technology use as a trend to watch, but it’s hard for me to predict precisely how the trend is going in terms of wellness. There are companies using technology in ways that build inclusive cultures and enhance wellness, like investing in technology to accommodate certain disabilities, offering free meditation apps, or more cutting-ends things like creating an AI that’s not biased.
The pandemic pause brought us to a moment of collective reckoning about what it means to live well and to work well. As a result, employees are sending employers an urgent signal that they are no longer willing to choose one — life or work — at the cost of the other. Working from home brought life literally into our work. And as the world now goes hybrid, employees are drawing firmer boundaries about how much of their work comes into their life. Where does this leave employers? And which perspectives and programs contribute most to progress? In our newest interview series, Working Well: How Companies Are Creating Cultures That Support & Sustain Mental, Emotional, Social, Physical & Financial Wellness, we are talking to successful executives, entrepreneurs, managers, leaders, and thought leaders across all industries to share ideas about how to shift company cultures in light of this new expectation. We’re discovering strategies and steps employers and employees can take together to live well and to work well.
As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Gina D’Andrea Weatherup.
Gina is the founder of Chantilly Mediation and Facilitation, where they help leaders build happier workplaces. Gina believes we spend too much time working to not be happy at work. As a trained and certified mediator, she brings a lens of empathy, neutrality, and voluntariness to all her work.
Thank you for making time to visit with us about the topic of our time. Our readers would like to get to know you better. Tell us about a formative experience that prompted you to change your relationship with work and how work shows up in your life.
It’s hard to pick a single formative experience. Part of being human means we all, always, carry all our experiences around with us, and all the experiences affect how we interpret what we experience, whether at work or in other arenas of life.
I know what it’s like to be the new mom who used to arrive at 8am and didn’t leave till after 6 — and then couldn’t, and didn’t want to, continue those hours.
I know what it’s like to work for an organization whose cause you deeply believe in, only to see hypocrisy within.
I know what it’s like to witness blatant sexism and racism, and feel completely at a loss for how to respond in a way that stops it.
I know what it’s like to stare, aghast, at the interviewer who says, “Yes, we are very flexible at this company! When so-and-so had a sick child, she worked from home.”
When I first learned about happiness at work, none of these experiences were top of mind — and yet they absolutely form my commitment to the belief that no one should be stuck in a job where they are not happy. Helping leaders take responsibility for building happier workplaces, giving them the knowledge and tools and opportunities to do so, just makes my heart sing.
Harvard Business Review predicts that wellness will become the newest metric employers will use to analyze and to assess their employees’ mental, physical and financial health. How does your organization define wellness, and how does your organization measure wellness?
AT CM+F, a well workforce is a happier workforce. We use the word happier, not happy, out of a recognition that happy people experience the full range of human emotion — no one is ever happy all the time, nor should we expect that of others. Building a work culture that is always happy is simply toxic positivity — where people are not welcome to be authentically themselves. The pressure to put a smile on your face, no matter how fake, itself causes more stress and strife.
We follow the PERK method when it comes to happier workforces — Purpose, Engagement, Resilience, and Kindness, as taught by Drs. Emiliana Simon-Thomas and Dacher Keltner at UC Berkeley and the Greater Good Science Center.
As for how to measure, some great data can be captured through a traditional employee engagement survey, which I encourage our clients to utilize. Yet there is so much to be said for more qualitative ways of knowing, and simply feeling that people can truly be themselves at work. Yet just because my client contact — typically a leader with quite a bit of institutional power — feels they can be fully themselves does not mean everyone else feels that way. We work with clients to conduct highly participatory meetings, online and in-person, to discuss how people feel about the way they work and what behaviors they want to engage in and expect of teammates. We have to have these meta discussions about how we work in order to get to a workforce that really is happier, and for a whole host of reasons it’s very difficult to have these conversations without an external facilitator. So we play that role.
Based on your experience or research, how do you correlate and quantify the impact of a well workforce on your organization’s productivity and profitability?
The correlations are there: feeling empathy, kindness, happiness — a myriad of pro-social behaviors and attitudes — is linked to higher productivity and profits. There’s decades of research on this. That’s not why I do this work, but it’s an important data point to note. And truly, most people want to feel a sense of productivity and accomplishment at work, so having that data is important.
There’s a significant intangible outcome of the types of facilitation we offer: People get excited about the work. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve facilitated a fairly traditional strategic planning session or series of sessions, and someone at the end speaks up to say: “I was not looking forward to this experience, but I had a lot of fun.” And when they return to regular work, they feel more committed to and excited about the projects that grew from those structured interactions.
The way we structure facilitated sessions also aims to help coworkers connect with each other. At CM+F we don’t do the kind of teambuilding where you’re out in the woods climbing ropes, and you probably won’t do a big group meditation or yoga experience, but, even as we talk about work we’re connecting on values, on purpose, on personalities and preferences for how we work together and engage with each other. So in building connection between coworkers, we’re also helping people to see each other as fully human, as a colleague, maybe as a friend, and that in turn helps people work together more collaboratively and honestly and builds productivity.
Even though most leaders have good intentions when it comes to employee wellness, programs that require funding are beholden to business cases like any other initiative. The World Health Organization estimates for every $1 invested into treatment for common mental health disorders, there is a return of $4 in improved health and productivity. That sounds like a great ROI. And, yet many employers struggle to fund wellness programs that seem to come “at the cost of the business.” What advice do you have to offer to other organizations and leaders who feel stuck between intention and impact?
I love this question, because it reminds me of the many times I’ve spoken to people about kindness at work and requested that they redefine what it means to be kind. We typically think of kindness as a one-to-one interaction — I buy someone a coffee, or, I give someone a compliment. When it comes to any organization, kindness — and wellness programs — need to be reconsidered in the context of the many, the collective. Focusing on just the individual doesn’t work. Similarly, when we focus on the line-item of X dollars will be spent on Y wellness program, we’re losing the most important focus — what will the impact be on our entire organization? On the people as a community, in the aggregate? On the whole organization’s productivity levels? These questions are where intention and impact can be married together. And for any individual leader who is struggling on this, I would encourage them to bring together all the stakeholders — meaning the employees themselves, at every level of the organization — and talk to them about it. Facilitating sessions of employees about how they experience life at work and what impacts work has on their life can really open up new ways of thinking and creative solutions to building a well workplace.
For those who are really looking for a dollar amount, I’d say go ahead and search for who else has done the specific thing you’re implementing. There may be data on it. For example, years ago Aetna implemented a completely voluntary mindfulness program, and the impact was that they saved $2000 per employee on healthcare costs. The data that shows your specific wellness program will have a significant monetary ROI probably exists — you just have to look for it. Or do it anyway and track the outcomes yourself, using a whole-company lens. Not just data like how many people are opting into that program, but six months or a year later, what do productivity levels look like? What are engagement scores doing if you’re tracking them every month? How are people feeling about the organization? These are all part of a whole-company lens.
Speaking of money matters, a recent Gallup study reveals employees of all generations rank wellbeing as one of their top three employer search criteria. How are you incorporating wellness programs into your talent recruitment and hiring processes?
I think too many HR recruiters believe that workplace wellness programs are the key, and they talk up offering great benefits or unlimited PTO or workplace trainings and programs on meditation or yoga or other forms of physical fitness. In reality, prospective talent can usually pick up on the little tells — the fact that their interview has been rescheduled twice, or the hiring manager doesn’t have time for more than a quick chat or shows up late, or that workers talk about a “work hard, play hard” culture. All of these things indicate a workplace that struggles with burnout, and is not particularly healthy. And workers who don’t pick up on these tells may wind up being burned out or just turning around and leaving within months — especially right now in a job-hunter’s market.
The best way to discuss workplace wellness at the recruitment stage is simply to talk openly about it at every interview stage and during onboarding. Ask prospective employees what wellness means to them, and honestly answer whether that fits the culture you represent. Definitely talk about the wellness programs you’re most proud of, and also understand that it may not fit what this person is looking for — and also that wellness is more than any group of programs, it’s an approach to how we treat each other and organize our time.
We’ve all heard of the four-day work week, unlimited PTO, mental health days, and on demand mental health services. What innovative new programs and pilots are you launching to address employee wellness? And, what are you discovering? We would benefit from an example in each of these areas.
- Mental Wellness: Make sure the health insurance plan for employees offers a robust mental health benefit. If your options aren’t great, raise the issue directly with the insurance company or benefits provider — or if you’re a manager who doesn’t have those contacts, talk to both HR and your executive leadership. Advocate for better benefits. The very least you can do, and this should not replace making sure your health insurance policy makes accessing a therapist or even in-patient care as easy as possible, is to encourage all staff to take time off as often as needed. We all need breaks from work. In fact, all time-off policies, whether you do all-in-one PTO or have separate categories from vacation to bereavement, should be generous. One pre-covid study found that the optimal number of work hours each week, to support mental health, should be between 8 and 20! I can’t imagine only working 8 hours a week, personally, but I think it’s an important point to consider that illustrates how important non-work time is for our mental health. I hope to see U.S. companies move toward policies that embrace flexible work weeks and multiple months off each year, rather than weeks. One note on bereavement: It has always shocked me that leaders in many industries, both for-profit and non-profit, felt it was appropriate to demand written proof about someone’s death and how they are related to an employee. None of that matters! What matters is you have someone who has a lost a loved one and needs some time and space. It’s highly insensitive, always, and even worse because of course the definitions of “immediate family” tend to reflect a very white, U.S., nuclear-type family that has only ever fit a small subset of people.
- Emotional Wellness: Emotional and mental wellness go hand-in-hand, but if I could offer something additional it would be that companies need to invest in training all staff on basic social-emotional wellness and the language of emotions. These are not topics we teach in K-12 schools in the U.S., and too often it is not addressed in other education settings either. There are many good approaches and consultants and trainers to choose from — look for someone who is trained in emotional intelligence, or has a background in social work or therapy. Ask your consultants about their training and how they stay informed on new research. When you offer these programs, keep them voluntary and engage your marketing team to advertise them and encourage people to participate without making it mandatory. Mandatory trainings too often just lead to more pressure and unwilling-to-learn participants. It defeats the purpose. And you don’t need to achieve 100% participation — these are the kinds of trainings where as some people adopt the techniques, it encourages others to do the same.
- Social Wellness: Some of the pressure to return to an office, for those who had the power to leave, is about being more social. We’re social creatures, though some to a lesser extent. I remember advising one new HR manager at a start-up about how important it was to think outside the box and not have all social events be happy hours or off-site or even in off-work hours. For the first time in her career, she started to think about including introverts with a greater understanding than “that person is shy/weird.” Happier cultures that embrace kindness tend to sow more commitment to the organization and higher engagement levels. People buy each other coffee, for example, or talk about their kids and hobbies. Especially for organizations returning to an office setting, even in a hybrid way, leaders should plan to carve out time to let these conversations and connections happen. Pressing on deadlines that aren’t reasonable will just make people more miserable. Structured mentoring programs can also play a role in supporting social wellness. I guess the bottom line on social wellness is just that we encourage managers and leaders and our HR policies to always consider the employee as a person, fully autonomous and not automated, all the time.
- Physical Wellness: Again, encourage your staff to take time off as often as needed. I’m hoping that even those companies currently forcing employees to return to working at an office (which is a decision I tend to disagree with) embrace a generous sick leave policy. The days of showing up for meetings on cold medicine with a mug of tea in hand should be gone. For preventive care, the best action companies can take is to offer flexibility in terms of hours and location for work — because preventive care doesn’t always mean a gym membership, it can look a lot of different ways. Living a physically healthy life is not sitting in an office for eight hours, five days a week. It’s just not. People deserve the option to take long walks in the middle of a Tuesday!
- Financial Wellness: The best financial wellness policy I’m aware of is Gravity Payments’ decision from the mid-2010s to make their “minimum wage” $70,000. To accomplish this, owner Dan Price gave up his millions a year. No one should work even a part-time job and not be able to feed themself or their family. At CM+F, we work with a robust network of vetted contractors, and as the President I look forward to the day when I can hire salaried staff — and pay them what they’re worth, beyond a living wage.
There’s also a couple additional pieces of wellness — environmental wellness and ethical wellness. I am just starting to learn what environmental wellness can look like, and to learn more about how to speed the transition to net zero emissions I’m following Kavi Consulting on LinkedIn. It’s not enough to assume that working from home equals fewer emissions, or, to assume that it’s largely an issue only facing the energy industry. We are all a part of it.
In terms of ethical wellness, I think about corporations who proclaim one value and then spend dollars that mean the opposite. For a recent example, Disney recently came under fire from its own employees because they didn’t stand up against the “Don’t Say Gay” bill in the Florida legislature. Now the Florida government is retaliating against Disney. The politicians had every reason to believe Disney wouldn’t speak out against the bill because it is commonplace for corporate America to say “we believe in equality and social justice” and then turn around and spend political dollars on both parties, without regard to any legislation other than business management and tax legislation. All of that contributes to employees believing that their leaders are hypocrites. And they may not be, really — it’s different people in different positions making different decisions. This is all part of why it’s so important to stay mission-focused and talk about values at work from a whole-company, sustainability, holistic perspective. People in different departments with different priorities need to be on the same page about what values the company professes and how to honor them.
Can you please tell us more about a couple of specific ways workplaces would benefit from investing in your ideas above to improve employee wellness?
One of the simplest wellness tips I incorporate to meetings we run for clients is to start off with an emotional check-in, using this visual tool (that link is open — no fee, no email required) that was inspired by the mood meter created by Marc Brackett at the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence. If you’d like to talk through how to use it, get on my calendar and we’ll talk; I can also tell you how to recreate it on a flipchart with markers for in-the-room meetings.
Using this at the start of meetings recognizes that we’re all carrying stuff with us, and gives people the opportunity to pause, reflect on where they are mentally, and do one thing to feel fully present for the meeting. It also gives the group a handy visual to see if a lot of people are perhaps dealing with a lot of stuff — as so many of us are now — and an emotionally intelligent leader can then open the floor to see if people want to pause work and connect on those things, or not. Simple, interactive, visual openings like this set a tone of openness that’s more typical of cultures that embrace wellness and that recognize that some folks are highly visual and may struggle with language.
How are you reskilling leaders in your organization to support a “Work Well” culture?
We specialize in participatory experiences around culture — culture change, supporting positive cultures, and trainings to support positive interpersonal interactions — as well as conflict resolution at work. The skills we frequently emphasize with client leaders are:
- Transparent communication — if you don’t have an answer, say that; then offer to decide or find an answer by a certain time and follow up. Too often, we expect non-managers or mid-level managers to do this, but don’t hold our leaders to the same standard.
- Perspective-taking — You can also think of this as empathetic leadership. In any situation, there are multiple truths. When someone has a different perspective that doesn’t fit the models and patterns our brains have developed in their normal way of taking shortcuts, we often dismiss that perspective. Yet doing so can lead to so many negative outcomes — the worst of which, in my view, being retaliatory actions against people calling out discrimination. When we recognize that even though we have not experienced something, it is still true, then it changes, for the better, how we interact with that person. There’s really no substitute for this kind of empathy.
- Taking time off and encouraging others to do the same — Have I said this enough yet? There is no single more important action than to take breaks from work. Leaders need to not just encourage others to use their time off, but demonstrate their own commitment to time off — by taking time off! It’s also essential to ensure adequate staffing and adequate client expectations so that no worker feels that a day off will be punished by having twice as much work when they return. I have heard workers at multiple clients say, “It’s not worth it to me to take a day off because of how much work piles up that I have to do when I return.” This is not a good way to treat people; it’s not sustainable and does not support wellness in any way. Taking a stand to manage client expectations is absolutely a leader’s job to support their people.
Ideas take time to implement. What is one small step every individual, team or organization can take to get started on these ideas — to get well?
One of my favorite ideas, courtesy of Heidi Abelli at Boston College, is the “happy half hour,” 30 minutes of informal social time, alcohol and attendance optional, over a team’s lunch hour or in the last half hour of the team’s day (say, 4:30–5 on a Friday). It’s something most managers can implement without much fuss, and with little or no admin time, and it demonstrates an understanding that asking people to voluntarily commit to social time with coworkers outside of working hours isn’t always feasible or welcome. Yet it also demonstrates the manager’s commitment to letting their people get to know each other, maybe blow off some steam or just take a break as a group. You can spend it watching funny cat videos together or letting people chit chat. Doing this regularly can enhance a team’s social, mental, and emotional wellness, which in turn can then benefit physical wellness, too.
What are your “Top 5 Trends To Track In the Future of Workplace Wellness?”
Let me first say that as a mediator, I wish I had a conflict-related trend to point to. But my workplace mediations seem to continue to be on the same topics that have caused conflict for years — accusations of discrimination, performance management issues, personality clashes, role and responsibility confusion, and just plain bad communication. And all these issues have deep impacts on social, emotional, and mental wellness, not to mention productivity — sometimes of an entire team or organization. The best step to take is to bring in a trained, professional mediator. Or have an internal ombuds role!
But when it comes to workplace wellness trends:
- The first one is of course the “great resignation,” which has many names. I do think tracking number of resignations over time is a useful indicator, and I’m predicting that, as resignations drop back to pre-pandemic levels, we will see healthier and happier workplaces. At that time, surveys will hopefully show that people feel more supported at work and have lower anxiety levels. For now, the monetary costs of these high numbers of resignations pressures employers to think differently and to think more deeply about workplace wellness and happiness. They wind up hiring consultants to look at engagement levels and advise them on cultural and behavioral changes, and that is the perfect action to take now. Most leaders are well-intentioned and do not want their employees to feel they have to leave in order to be well at work. They still need an outside perspective to help them explore what’s possible, and preferably they do this with people skilled in creating psychologically safe spaces for their employees to open up about what they really want. When a leader just announces “Hey, we’re going to talk about how we work,” people are left questioning, “What is safe for me to share here?” Hiring the right external people can help you set the tone and encourage honesty about what’s working and what’s not. Because the truth is there’s no one-size-fits-all solution. We’re certainly still in the midst of this big change happening; but one example of the pressure the great resignation is exerting is simply the fact that so many organizations are moving to some form of hybrid work. In the finance industry, you see the larger companies forcing people to return to the office, and smaller companies using offers of hybrid or even fully remote schedules as a way to poach talent. Yet even companies with as few as 50 employees are asking me what the causes are and how to deal with it! I always recommend returning to basics: Consider workload, time off, and how people treat each other, first and foremost.
- The second trend to track is inclusivity. So many more people are recognizing that diverse hiring is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to building a workforce that reflects the people you serve and the society we live in. How people feel — inclusivity and belonging — is much more important, and especially when it comes to wellness. When we see survey numbers like 70% of all white collar workers want to stay hybrid but 97% of Black workers want to stay hybrid, we white people can begin to recognize that perhaps structural racism does impact how we feel about work, and what wellness means at work. Over time we’ll see more women of all races, and more Black, Latinx, Asian, and Arab Americans of all genders visibly represented in leadership of Fortune 500 companies — and that will be just one dynamic of this trend of more inclusive workplaces. Unconscious bias trainings have their place, and empathy trainings do as well, but there is also a growing trend among DEI consultants and specialists to push for ways to hold managers at all levels accountable for building inclusive teams. That trend is essential to creating more just workplaces, and that is absolutely an aspect of a mentally, socially, financially, ethically well workplace.
- For the third trend, I look at empathy. Empathetic leaders and discussion about them is not new: At least since the days of the women’s suffrage movement, people have debated whether empathy is a good leadership quality (although in those days it was in the context of how to influence politics). It was always a smaller debate, less present than discussions of might or of counting widgets to measure productivity. Yet once we were mostly forced into staying home in the very early days of the covid-19 pandemic, empathetic leadership was all the media wanted to cover about work for a while. Today I think we’re seeing a bit of pushback, but the overall trend — rightfully so — does seem to be that leaders are more interested in learning about, embracing, and behaving with empathy. Letting your workers, no matter the industry, know that the leaders in the organization care about them is never a bad thing. And we have decades of research on this. Humans are social creatures, even the most introverted of us, and feeling cared for is essential to well-being. What may be tricky for leaders is that “to feel cared for” may mean different things to different people — it is essential to ask people what helps them feel cared for, and not to guess and implement something that may have worked somewhere else.
- This fourth trend is going to be far less optimistic: We’re seeing so many women leave the workforce. It is happening at every level of income and in all corners of society. Factors include the pandemic, pay inequality, a terrible public transportation infrastructure, and sexism. For moms, especially, the concept of work-life balance is fraught — and it is even more fraught when people use the phrase “work-life integration,” which I absolutely hate. The concept of balance, for me, includes the idea of using boundaries. When I was a new mom and changed my working hours, quietly, deliberately, never asking for permission and hoping no one noticed or cared, it was because I needed to bound my work — to limit it so that I could make room for this new and important role. The idea of integration means one thing flows into the other, and there are no boundaries. It may work well for some people, but I’m betting most moms would prefer to be required to work fewer hours and earn better pay — which is entirely possible if we eliminate the pay gap and embrace tracking work results and outcomes, not hours — and have more time when they don’t have to think about work. That’s not an integration of roles, that’s a rebalancing. This is an issue that touches on so many factors and trends: How we monetize care work, how school district administrators structure school days, how we value the presence of women in male-dominated spheres, and more. Even for women who aren’t moms, there are still social pressures to take on unpaid roles at work — everything from note-taking in meetings to cleaning the coffee pot at the of the day to organizing the online happy hour. Women are seen as caregivers, and men are expected to not be caregivers. One man I know almost did not get the job he wanted because he was honest about wanting to be at home to be present for his kids. Sexism isn’t always about treating women differently, but treating behaviors associated with women as less worthy. There are 2 things leaders reading this should go do right now: First, go read “Putting a Stop to Women’s Unpaid Office Work” by Carolyn Fairchild at LinkedIn. Second, examine your pay structures. Don’t necessarily compare them to the local markets, but do examine, internally, average wages for men and women at different levels. And if you have a big enough organization, look at average wages for white people and Black, Asian, Latinx, and Arab American people at different levels. Then fix the wages so there’s not a pyramid with white men at the top.
- I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention technology use as a trend to watch, but it’s hard for me to predict precisely how the trend is going in terms of wellness. There are companies using technology in ways that build inclusive cultures and enhance wellness, like investing in technology to accommodate certain disabilities, offering free meditation apps, or more cutting-ends things like creating an AI that’s not biased. The impetus for embracing Zoom at the start of the pandemic was a positive wellness-related idea: Letting people continue to see each other, to interact remotely in ways that could still feel social. Of course Zoom fatigue is a thing and the very old technology of phone calls should sometimes be a replacement for the video call, especially in order to enhance mental and physical wellness! I’m all for the walking-while-talking-on-the-phone meeting. At the same time, we’ve seen an uptick in companies adopting intrusive technologies that likely make their employees feel more like prisoners than cared-for teammates. I’m thinking of eye-tracking and keystroke-tracking software, specifically. These technologies may have wonderful uses outside of work, but using technology in this way to chain workers to desks no matter where they are is simply unconscionable. I’m hoping the trend of companies purchasing these technologies ends soon.
What is your greatest source of optimism about the future of workplace wellness?
I get energized when I learn, and reading about innovative programs and campaigns from others makes me smile. For example, when I first learned about Aetna’s mindfulness program back in 2019, I talked about it to everyone! I incorporated it into trainings. Never mind that I struggle with meditation! This was so cool!
Interacting with younger workers who can clearly see the ways that our traditional office work jobs just don’t work gives me hope.
Following DEI experts on LinkedIn — Lily Zheng, Patrice M. Palmer, Michelle MiJung Kim, and Suman Kapur (who I’m really honored to call my friend) — educates me and gives me hope. Knowing that Carolyn Fairchild’s Working Together newsletter, which talks almost exclusively about women at work and inequality at work, has more than 285,000 subscribers gives me hope.
There are so many difficult things happening in the world today, from the war in Ukraine to the continued racist effects of slavery and “manifest destiny” in our borders here in the U.S. — yet when I look at workplace news there are so many interesting stories that demonstrate we are in a unique period of change. And nearly everyone works, so if we can build happier workplaces that prioritize employee wellbeing, imagine the ripple effects! Lower stress and anxiety — less conflict we carry home with us or into commutes that can turn into road rage — really, the office or any job should be a place where wellness is prioritized. No one should have to spend as much time working as we do if work doesn’t bring you happiness, in some form, at least some of the time. No one should be miserable at work.
Our readers often like to continue the conversation with our featured interviewees. How can they best connect with you and stay current on what you’re discovering?
I’m available at [email protected] or people can schedule a chat with me directly (zoom is an option but it can be a walking phone call!).
I post regularly on LinkedIn and on Twitter.
I’d love to talk with people about wellness and happiness at work!
Thank you for sharing your insights and predictions. We appreciate the gift of your time and wish you continued success and wellness.