James Hollis brilliantly contrasts the fleeting nature of happiness with the enduring depth of meaning, showing how meaning offers a more sustainable path to fulfilment. He explains how it anchors us during tough times, helping us make sense of suffering and driving personal growth. He highlights that pursuing meaning often involves connecting with something greater than ourselves, leading to lasting fulfilment. The first part of this interview is the Search for Meaning vs Happiness.
Interviewing him felt like a master class with a true master! Enjoy!
Interviewer: James, why do you believe meaning is more important than happiness?
James Hollis: Happiness is a fleeting emotion, often dependent on external circumstances. It’s the joy we feel when enjoying a meal, spending time with loved ones, or achieving a goal. These moments are lovely, but they are inherently temporary. Meaning, on the other hand, is a more profound, more enduring sense of purpose. It’s our satisfaction when contributing to a cause, building relationships, pursuing creative endeavours, or overcoming personal challenges. When we live a life of meaning, we have a sense of direction and coherence that can sustain us through both good times and bad.
Interviewer: So, how does meaning sustain us in difficult times?
James Hollis: Meaning is not just a psychological anchor; it’s a transformative force. When life throws challenges our way—loss, false, or uncertainty—meaning helps us make sense of those experiences. It allows us to integrate our struggles into a larger narrative of growth and purpose. Without meaning, those problematic times might seem random or purposeless, leading to despair or existential anxiety. But with meaning, even suffering can have a place in the story of our lives, inspiring us to keep moving forward and transforming our perspective.
Interviewer: You mention that happiness is fleeting. Can you explain that further?
James Hollis: Certainly. Happiness is often tied to our immediate circumstances—enjoying a meal, spending time with loved ones, or achieving a goal. These moments are lovely, but they are inherently temporary. Life is complex and unpredictable; we can’t control the factors contributing to our happiness. When we chase happiness as the ultimate goal, we set ourselves up for disappointment because it’s not something we can hold onto indefinitely. It’s important to note that happiness differs from pleasure, a more immediate sensory experience. Pleasure is often fleeting and can be derived from external sources, while happiness is a deeper, more enduring emotional state.
Interviewer: How does the pursuit of meaning differ from the pursuit of happiness?
James Hollis: Pursuing happiness can sometimes lead to self-centeredness because it focuses on personal gratification. In contrast, pursuing meaning often involves engaging with something larger than ourselves—whether through relationships, creative endeavours, or contributing to a cause. Meaning pulls us out of our ego and connects us to the broader tapestry of life, which can lead to a more profound and lasting fulfilment.
Interviewer: How does this perspective fit into Jungian psychology?
James Hollis: Jungian psychology emphasises individuation, which is about becoming your true self. This process often involves facing brutal truths and integrating different aspects of your psyche. It’s not always a happy journey—it can be challenging and even painful sometimes—but it’s significant. Individuation is a process of self-discovery and self-acceptance, where we align our lives with our inner values and true nature, leading to a sense of wholeness that transcends mere happiness.
Interviewer: Carl Jung once remarked, “Life is a short pause between two great mysteries.” How do you interpret this statement in terms of finding meaning in life?
Interviewee: Jung’s quote beautifully encapsulates existence’s transient and enigmatic nature. It invites us to reflect on some fundamental questions:
–What is the purpose of this pause we call life?
–Who am I?
–What am I meant to serve?
These questions are essential in helping us navigate our journey through life.
Interviewer: You mentioned that finding meaning has shifted in modern times. Can you elaborate on this?
Interviewee: Certainly. Historically, the responsibility of finding meaning often rested on collective entities like tribes or religious institutions. They provided a framework of values and purpose for individuals. However, this responsibility has shifted to the individual in the modern world. It’s a profound privilege but also a significant responsibility. Now, we must determine how we will spend our lives in service to whom. The first part of life is often service to others outside us, i.e. parents, teachers, partners and bosses. The second part of the journey is wanting to seek expression through me.
That is our vocation and will be our part 2 of the interview.
Dr. James Hollis is a Washington, D.C.-based Jungian psychoanalyst and the author of twenty books.